when did saul attack the gibeonites
This is what we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for sin, and the lingering effects of sin. God has torn the kingdom from you. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. Report, August 29 2022 So they thought, "Hmm. You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. I think he was distracted because the turmoil had taken such a toll on Israel, and the famine too, that he was worried about the economy, rebuilding cities and fortifications, and his alliances with Hiram and others. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. Go coach! The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David's attention was elsewhere for three whole years. It is not there in the Scriptures. The midrash states that when Saul learned of this, he was angry with his daughter and demanded of her: Why did you deceive me and let my enemy escape? So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. And then King David inquired of the Lord. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned for forty -two years over Israel. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. You do not know. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. It comes as a snare, Christ says, on everybody. God sent the rain, it says specifically, "from heaven," verse 10, "in the latter rains," which is their normal cycle. What is meaning of 2 Cor. Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. Think about it. But, you would think that after two years you would get the idea that this was not breaking. This is a bit unusual. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. God sees behind the scenes. Now it came to pass, when Adonizedec king of Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a It is his sin. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. What should we get out of this? Evidently, that is what he did. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very Then they went back and took Ai. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. He apparently killed They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. Good question. This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. Why are they where they were? The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. Finally the light came on, and David said, "I had better ask what is going on here. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. Joshua 9:25-27 "And now, here we are, in your hands; do with us as it seems good and right to do to us." And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. During Davids reign, the people of Gibeon demanded that all of Sauls children be put to death so as to atone for a severe famine. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. The soul who sins shall die. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" Because David had been good friends with Jonathan, he at first allowed all of Sauls family to continue to live peaceably in the land. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. We have all followed in the same way of life as our first parents Adam and Eve. He just let them walk all over him. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. When did Saul kill these Gibeonites? That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. DECEPTION AND COST Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. So, he spared Agag, and he spared a lot of the good stuff. King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. Clarify Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. A lot can happen in two years. He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. We do not know when it happened. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? So this zeal may not have carried good connotations (cf John 2:17) it was not zeal for God but zeal for man, an ongoing problem with Saul. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." Why wasn't I told about this?" And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. God would have said, "Kill them all!" It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. But the consequences of their sinswhat it means to us; what happened because of their sinstill affects us today. 2 And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the Now if the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. Vote Up The Gibeonites have the dubious distinction of having duped Joshua and the elders of Israel. King Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Later still, during the time of King David, a famine occurred in Israel. When David asked the Lord about the famine, God said, It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death (2 Samuel 21:1). Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. 5. They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. What have they done? God spared them as a people, but His nation condemned them to endless servitude. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. It is not genetic. Should the explanation in Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Is that what happened?" This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. Evidently, he thought that he could win back his kingdom if he zealously did God's will. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". There were not very many of them left. It won't do anybody any good lying here dead. And King David rolled over and let this happen. So they answered Joshua and said, "Because your servants were clearly told that the LORD your God commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you.". And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. Then Gibeon was a mile or two more to the north-northwest. You had only black and white television if you had television. He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. Notice that I Kings begins not many chapters after this. WebThe designation Nethinim is derived from the Hebrew verb natan ("to give over"), which can mean devoting someone to cultic service. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Jerusalem is almost directly west a few miles, but it is quite high from the Jordan to the Jerusalem. II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. 3. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. You might say a whole cycle of generations. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." Now that we have established that there was a horrible massacre at some point in the past, remember there was sin, and there was a crime committed. Perhaps the Scriptures are contrasting the faithless actions of Saul and his house in regard to the covenant with the Gibeonites, with the faithful actions of David in regard to the covenant with Jonathan. WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. A snare is a trap. Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who trusts in Him! 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